In my experience people who have chosen a career in manufacturing engineering have on-the-job training, and have spent many years learning skills either in the shop or on their own initiative. The typical manufacturing engineer has enough initiative to work a full time job, raise a family, and to pursue a higher education.
The space industry needs manufacturing engineering as much as any other field. As private companies compete with NASA for space travel, the need is going to be even greater. Some would say the U.S. is apparently losing ground in the world on the manufacturing front. However, in the technology race I believe the U.S. is first and will rise to the top of manufacturing.
One of the problems I have faced in the workplace is the fact that I took longer to get a degree in engineering than most. I worked full time, raised a family and went to school at night and finally started on line education. I may have been more sensitive to criticism than most, but it seems to me a caste system exists in the U.S. workplace.
Engineers that graduate university as twenty-year-olds tend to be placed in top management and everyone else is the worker class.
The system has a lot to change to keep up with the increases in knowledge and technology. Another area that needs work, is the understanding that manufacturing engineering and technologists are a valuable part of the administration team and should be utilized as a collaborative part of the design engineering team to improve designs and reduce manufacturing costs due to design errors. What do you thing?
Each employer is responsible forprotecting trade secrets and goverment classified information. It is the decision of the employer whether they want to accept the student as an intern. The students go through the interview process as if they are being hired. Most employers protect the information by limiting access. Some have separate areas for governement work. Some have door acces given only to those who need it. My badge gives me access to every bldg in the company. (Aircraft and other) My friend, who is from Kenya, only has access to the bldg. that makes restaurant equipment. If an employer feels they cannot protect their secrets, they can tell the university intern coordinator that they only want US citizens for internship. Wichita Kansas has many places of industry, aircraft and other. I asked one company if they required US citizens only. The owner replied no. He proceeded to tell me he considers it discrimination if he does not consider all students no matter what country they are from. So it is just the preference of the employer. The University accepts and respects what the employer wants or needs when it comes to interns.
I also spent years to get a degree. I worked full time, and took evening classes, and raised a family. I was over forty yrs old when I graduated. I did not find a problem with being overrun by the younger engineers. I blended well with them. Since I had 20 years of shop experience before getting my degree, I knew how parts were made. The youngr engineers without experience came to me for answers when they did not know if a design could be manufactured. I am well respected by both mangement and those with whom I work. I do not feel that my age has held me back from any opportunities. We have a unique program where I work. A manufacturing engineer is seated beside each deisgn engneer. It is teamwork so that each design is approved as manufacturable. A very good learning experience for both the manufacturing engineer and aerospace design engineer. I wish other companioes would grasp this concept and become progressive and try this concept. It works well.
It is the responsibility of the employer to protect their information and make sure all ITAR regulations are followed. The students are interviewed by the employer and hired and classified as an employee. If it is an unpaid internship then the are classified as non compensated employee but are eligible for some benefits. Also they are covered on the employer workman comp . If it is a paid internship then they are compensated employees and earn all benefits. Some employers segregate their work with trade secrets and no unauthorized employees are admitted. Most are secured by doors which require badge access to enter. I did an internship at a place that makes aircraft components, doggie doors, and pizza pans. I was granted full access, but my friend who was a foreign national was only allowed in the building where the pizza pans were made.
Whether an employer wants to offer an internship, (paid or unpaid), to a student and how to protect their information is entirely up to the employer. There are many internships which are non aircraft or government related which feel completely confident in their company and don?t consider students a threat. I have one which I frequently take students on a tour. He says he considers it discrimination to overlook a student because of their origin. He has hired a number of students that already have the right to work in the US. He is probably one of Wichita State strongest supporters.
Employers are aware that the internship cannot be paid, if the foreign national student does not have the legal right to work in the US. Some employers will sponsor a student so they can gain the legal right to work n US.
The internship situation works well because it is a relationship between the school and the employer. The school provides the formal education and the employer adds to it by inviting the student to participate in their business for one or more semesters. It is an evolving relationship because times and attitudes change, laws change and employers needs change.
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Hi James,
Thank you for your reply, I enjoyed reading it. You also have a valid point and a great contribution to this discussion. The time may be right for someone to link together SME, Industry, Education, and the US Government to change the system to create the future of manufacturing engineering. NASA has a newly appointed Director, A former US Senator. The President's wife has a Doctorate in Education and is interested in developing US education. The US is lagging behind the world in education. If a group of interested parties rise up from the grassroots and put together a coalition to initiate the process of combining industry and education to train STEM students with real-world experience the group might find backing by SME, Industry, and the US Government to effect real change. As the task of eating an elephant, it starts with the first bite. The first step has been taken by you, two insightful young leaders. Naming the problem is often the first step in finding a solution.
I am 68 years old and began working with computers in 1972. I have been involved with technological advances for fifty years. I have worked on many cutting-edge projects all over the world. You two represent the best in the future of our young that may one day take leadership in SME and forge stronger Manufacturing/Industry relationships to advance technology.
I came from a small farming community in rural central Alabama. College was a dream that was out of my reach without funds to attend, I began working. My math and science skills together with a thirst for knowledge allowed me to advance in engineering quickly. I have been a lifelong learner paying for education along the way and accumulating an enormous school loan debt. This is another problem the US faces as we think about recruiting bright young people into our educational system. There are many that could make amazing contributions to technology growth, but they are hindered by the fear of enormous school loan debt. Some have had such hard lives that growing up has caused them to focus on earning enough to provide for themselves and less fortunate families. Often times grade point averages hold students back. Grades may be a function of having time to study, no home distractions that prevent focus on studies, or other problems someone should begin to work to solve.
I can envision a future where all sciences engage to support our young people of all sexual orientations, races, religions, and nationalities, and handicaps. Graduate students in every science could be involved in the supervised programs to help less fortunate families with psychological and social needs. Medical needs, housing, schooling could all be projects that prospective Psychologists, Doctors, Engineers, Educators, Faith Leaders, Bankers, Businessmen, and women could find useful programs to help young people grow to be productive, talented contributors to society.
No, this is not socialism, it is humanity. It might just be a dream. But, I have heard it said that “all of us are smarter that one of us”. If all of us work together in a society where this kind of future is possible. What do you think?
Richard Crowson
Thank you for your post reply Kathryn . I enjoyed reading your posting. It sounds like your school has the right idea to advance knowledge, education and industry for the future. A graduate school in out area, the University of Central Florida (UCF) grad school Center for Research in Optics and Lasers (CREOL) has a program that is similar to the one described by your post. For more than twenty years the school has been involved in highly technical joint venture projects between industry and the grad school. When I was involved in the late 1990’s the school was conducting more than $10 million dollars of such projects with many Companies like Lockheed. I don’t know the current totals. My team developed the first laser glass cutting process that split glass at the molecular level resulting from in zero width cutting of display glass used in flat panel displays.
The program you have described is fascinating. How does your school prevent the violation of industry trade secrets or classified information since many grad students can be from countries all over the world? Companies that work on government contracts are very careful about the secret classification. Even sensitive but unclassified information will result in a ten year prison sentence and a $ 1 million dollar fine if violated.
Regards,
Richard Crowson, CMfgE, CMfgT, CAES III,
APT, BCA, BSME, MARE, MABS, MAMIS, MDIV, PHd student.
I think you are correct about young engineers and their lack of practical application and problem solving. Wichita State University, (Wichita KS). identified this problem over fifteen years ago. They have spent years trying to solve this problem. Through a partnership with the employers in Wichita and surrounding areas, many internships have been developed. The curriculum at WSU- (Wichita State University), has been developed with a very strong Advisory Board consisting of the major employers, (many lab classes were added to the curriculum). Almost every engineering student gets to experience a hands on internship for one or more semesters. Most start an internship after they have acquired thirty college credits and stay with the employer to graduation. A large percentage are offered jobs at graduation. Students enjoy the internships because it gives them experience and ninety percent are paid internships. Some of the internships offer tuition reimbursement for the student. There are more internship requests than the college has students during most semesters. These internships are highly supervised by the employer and college. These employers realize their responsibility toward building the workforce of the future. These are not just dump undesirable chores on the student. The students are actually treated like an employee and participate in management decision making processes. There is one graduate that I can?t help but brag about. He worked part time at the National Institute for Aviation Research for his last three years of college. His job was to disassemble F-35 panels and inspect for defects, and then reassemble them. He was offered an internship at Lockheed Martin the summer before his senior year. He was offered a job at the end of the internship. He told them he had to go back and finish his senior year. They said be here to start June 1, next year. The report from Lockheed Martin about his work as an intern was, ? we need about 100 interns like him. He was literally running circles around our paid engineers.? I believe his formal education, supervised internship, and undying work ethic and love of learning and trying new opportunities got him the huge head start into his career.
It has taken much work from professors, staff and employers to make this work. It has been constantly evolving to make the university curriculum better and to get the students prepared for an engineering career.
Just a few thoughts.
Kathryn Daniels, CMfgE, LSME, Ph.D
I am the student chapter advisor of SME chapter at Wichita State University. We are evolving just like the university and just keep getting better.
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Response to Richard: I am the Principal of a secondary High School Technical Center with a large engineering program. What I have heard from the industry that supports your thinking is the younger graduates have a gap in connecting the manufacturing application in the engineering process. Young engineers are high on theory but short on application and problem identification and problem-solving.